The Future of Design – Satyendra Pakhalé

Marco Bevolo and Filiberto Amati chat with Satyendra Pakhalé, Principal Designer, Design Director and Founder Satyendra Pakhalé Associates, author of “Culture of Creation”

 

Transcript

Filiberto Amati
Hi, this is Filiberto Amati and I’m here today with Marco Polo for another session on the future of design. We have an esteemed guest Mr. Chrisman introducing.

Marco Bevolo
Thank you, Filiberto, our series is now already seeing some protagonists of contemporary designer from industrial design from design thinking from intellectual leadership, thought leadership, and in a way, today, we have as a guest a design for all around and all engaged in the discourse of design thinking and design practicing Satyendra peclet. The trainer, I welcome on board with our LinkedIn interview together with Filiberto mean, Sandra and I know each other for having been both through Philips design and the design team led by Stefan Omarosa, I know you’ve seen 1991 And until 2011, we actually never worked together, but we do know, our work through mutual interests, and a great mutual respect. Satyendra is recently printed his book culture of creation, with nine zero thing publishers in the Netherlands, one of the finest design publishers in the world. We are in the in this in this dialogue, we are going to touch upon various aspects of culture of creation from social cohesion as an aspiration in there’s an objective of design to technology and the role of technology in implementing design solutions and the inspiring design ideas and through the practice of Satya Indras. Studio. But would you like, please, to introduce yourself briefly, also, in terms of your biography, your roots and your foundation that brought you to design thinking into the practice of design in your professional experience.

Satyendra Pakhalé
Thank you, Marco Thank you, Filiberto, for inviting, it’s, it’s really a pleasure to speak with you after a long time we go long back. But it’s, it’s a, it’s an interesting possibility to, to, to engage, and especially on the occasion of the recently published book on our body of works, you know. So that is just happening in just the beginning of pandemic and the book has not properly launched internationally as yet. Maybe it’s been distributed, but it’s not launched in a sense of book, presentation and reviews. There has been one small event here in Amsterdam, at the cultural center, because this idea last year, and we look forward to how many more the reason I started with the book is because book is a result of last almost a quarter century of engagement and work and the practice of last 23 years, based here in Amsterdam, so it’s really a result of many, let’s say points, many engagements, many intellectual curiosities and, and with that the ideas which are very critical and important, we always felt in the in the practice to to apply those ideas, you know, and we will speak about those a little further. And eventually, I hope that these points which we try to bring across in a monograph, becomes a kind of a point of conversation or even a point of debate discussion that goes further. Well, we have been here actually in Amsterdam and I set up a practice just after Philips more or less, in 98. That is September 98. And before that, been engaged with Philips design with these other really amazing days of Philips design as we know when Stefano Manzana was leading and they were great projects be carried out. And I’ve been part of that you’ve been part of that, you know, and, and that actually that really a kind of engagement, which Stefan about into conversation actually there and apply to technology in a very tangible manner. Those were not just theoretical ideas, but they became a tangible reality. And that tangible reality, you still see in a product lines, obviously, things are change, for obvious reasons of technology, and so forth. But you see the impact actually, even now. And what I really appreciated that time and still do is the, it was not just abstract thoughts and thinking and the direction the theoretical thought, but that was always implemented in practice. And you see that in interest as well, you know, so that has always been also my curiosity all along. And before joining Philips, I did a Advanced Studies at the at the Art Center College of Design in Switzerland, the American School with I had my amazing work experience with another legendary of his frog design with Hartmut Esslinger. That was another really important experience early on for me, because understanding all the work they have done before, obviously, the legendary work for Apple, but also for the next computer and many other and that was really very, very crucial in my growing up as a designer, I would say rather than practice, that was really the growing up as a designer. And before that, I studied design in India, at a very well known School of Industrial Design called Industrial Design Center. It’s in it’s a part of Indian Institute of Technology. And Rich was founded by a professor who studied at the old school, historical school. So there is a very strong link with international design community it has been and especially when I went to school, then there that time, there was 20 years of

a after the, let’s say, Woolman, after was a big conference, that was 20 years of existence of a school when I was going to school there. And I met many of this design fraternity from all around the world, especially Europe, and the rest of the world, Japan included all the way to South and North America, you know, so that has been amazing, let’s say time at the design school there. So that has been my journey, I grew up in a in a right in a geographical center of India, which is right in the middle. And this is a different time, of course, no internet, no access to information, like we take it for granted now. So of course, it’s been a longer journey. And here we are to talk about and, and to talk in a form of monograph. And I must say, we were very, very cute, cautious not to make obvious monograph. So it is by any definition, not the obvious monograph that just some projects, and that’s it. No, it’s really a book which engages thoroughly with the topic. And I’m very humbled and honored to have amazing amount of thinkers, practitioners who have contributed to the book, such as voluntarily and obviously Stefano Masano johani Pallasmaa, the great architect from Finland, Eric Chan, who’s currently now the director of the stimulating swarm Syrian in Rotterdam, but he used to be the, the curator in chief of m plus before actually in Hong Kong, and many other places and things he did you and there are so many number of people, among them, also my close associates and teammates, Professor Tiziana Priety, she’s now teaching at a club. She’s been part of our team for a very long time, and so forth. So there’s been a really thorough engagement and and also on a curatorial side, think about the Rhoda one who did my first design exhibition at the State Museum. She also did a critical review of the work and so So, is a very thorough, let’s say, analysis, engagement on several topics including the body of

Marco Bevolo
work yeah. Before we dwelve into culture of creation, more in into your history and vision of the what the strategic impact of design is and what the future of design is. I would like to ask Filiberto to reflect with me and to address you with a question about the impact of digitalization. You mentioned the hermit Aslan gm of Frog Design, one of the greatest product design firms of the 1970s 80s and 90s. And currently very much digital agency working on digital solutions. Filiberto, would you like for also from your experiencing At the design of brands and in the marketing of consumer electronics products with with Philips itself and as consultant, would you like to reflect and to inspire us at the end round the impact of digitalization on the future of design?

Filiberto Amati
Actually, I have a very specific question because Surendra, through his work has always been, you know, and what you just said, linking the theoretical model and framework with the practical work of building of creation. So, how do you get ready for creating new products? When, with the current development of the metaverse in digital technologies, products will have a non physical dimension, which will have to go you know, beyond the replica of, okay, let’s do a 3d model of, you know, there will be different types of interaction, which we saw reason examples of Heineken launching a brew for the maintenance. But there are examples of, you know, luxury stores, and luxury brands launching platforms, which, of course, are not just stores, but they’re also engagement platforms for the matrix. So how do you get ready? And what is your vision? In that perspective?

Satyendra Pakhalé
Yeah. If we were to this is a very good and appropriate engagement and discussion we need to have, and I’m glad you asked that as a first question. I’m very happy to really see how these things are developing in a way, let me say something obvious thing, which we seen happening, you know, as, you know, the evolution of technology, as as we seen it, the first time, we all know that we experienced and we’re old enough to know, remember this, because then the Apple came with the, with the computer that the graphic designer could manipulate the, let’s say, the graphical image, it was like explosion, everybody could try whatever, it took time till it settled down the dust and, and refine what came out of same thing happened later with product design, you know, like the moment we got the 3d software’s some of those we don’t even use anymore, like CDRs, and so forth. And And now, if people started doing whatever the wacky shapes, you know, I’m thinking it’s cool. And even the image moves on the screen. I remember those days, I have been a part of that journey that where people were so excited just because something moved on the screen, yeah, we gone from there, the product design world has evolved, matured and created something then architecture got the 3d software, and then again, you got all kinds of crazy things, shapes, forms, whatever, till the meaning is made, actually. And now you see to find practices trying to create meaning, which is, which hopefully, these new, let’s say expressions will last as long as what we how some of the past experience expressions in architecture. We have it with us since centuries, you know? So now coming to the metaverse world. I think right now what is happening is are so early steps, actually, it is like the reason I’m bringing the graphic design product design and architecture example of using a 3d software is exactly what’s happening now with everybody using the metaverse, you know, now, the question is, you know, we absolutely need to think and engage in a mature way what should be and what could be the built environment? I call it built again. Yeah, I don’t want to say what your word Yeah. There’s a reason for that as well. Yeah. The reason is the built world what we have the physical world, and the virtual world, it cannot be just a copy of it. First of all, yeah, that is often done. And that happens. That’s, that’s almost like a childlike learning curve where you imitate and you learn. But on the other hand, it’s also not something completely like, which has no any kind of sense with our perception and the way we let’s assess the world perceive the world. This topic of perceptions and reality is very dear to my heart because that’s how we as a human being function. And that is a big part of conversation in the book as well. And thanks to your homie Pallasmaa, who has done a great deal of work on sensorial design, he engages on a topic later about especially about creating atmosphere of object creating atmosphere within the context of built architecture environment. Now, the early examples what we see with Metaverse are really incredibly silly some of them you know, I’m sorry to say that almost silly. See that maybe it’s some freak scientist, they okay, it’s something cool, whatever. But that’s not the reality, it cannot be the reality. With due respect to all the corporations who are going on the first bandwagon of a Metaverse and release either footwear or some other products, they also don’t have that gravity actually has yet you know, in terms of the kind of articulate Ness one could have. And this is very much an engagement and conversation we’re having internally within our team as well. Is that what kind of language what kind of a shape even if I’m building my virtual place, and I want to have a nice dinner party with you a couple of other friends, so, I would like to have something that represent and projects my personality or my way of thinking or my way I would like to see the world even idealized What if I could say, but it cannot be just some whatever, you know, it cannot be something which doesn’t have gravity you float here and there and there, you know, that is just the one very obvious interpretation. Now, are we there yet? No, we are not there yet. Just like when the graphic design came, it took certain time to settle down the dust and then refine work is come has has evolved from that same with architecture and product design. Same thing will happen with this as well. But unfortunately, as we speak now a lot of people like us which are critical, regular rigorous creators and thinkers and engage with the practice, we are to come and engage also with the metaverse as well in a in a very objective in a real way, you know, and what will be that expression whether it I am obviously saying that it cannot be just obviously the the exact build environment, what we have the physical reality, but it cannot be also some wacky, whatever things you see right now, which also is not the not the possibility, what I really wish personally if I could add, the last point, is that the point where can we create a projection and the kind of possibility in a meta was that will help us perfect our lived environment built environment, make it better, you know, and even make it provocative action, that would be the reverse effect, I would like to see fundamentals

Filiberto Amati
I ever follow up. Because as a non designer, my understanding of design has always been on two levels, there is a functional and an emotional part. And design makes the functional part better. But it brings a word of emotion which connects with the physical, in tactile and the functional as well. Characteristics. You know, you mentioned the first Mac was like, wow, you know, who doesn’t want to work with it? Or who doesn’t want to the first iMac when when they move beyond the idea that computers need to be square boxes, you know, either one of two colors, which were, by the way, grading of the same colors. So that’s my impression of what the design is on this side of reality. And when I look at the mothers, it seems to me that there is an emotional path. But what I like very often is actually the physical component, I mean, the functional component, not the physical component. What is this useful for? Well, does it help doing beyond transposing what we have today into a digital reality? No. Is that the issue with the metallicity stage? Or goes well beyond that?

Satyendra Pakhalé
I think I think first of all, let me say if I could say, allow me to say that I would not divide design to be functional and emotional, I think design is everything. Design is really cultivates and shapes your perception in a true true positive sense. It can bring a social positive change, that is my exploration as a design actually, where it just works. But working and singing, I don’t think I mean these things I don’t want to divide or see it in a separate way that something is functional and something is emotional, you know. So if we as a human being, you know, if we would not be let’s say utilitarian, we will never do this or we never clap because then you say why what is the function of this you see, we’ll use hands only to climb a hole or to do something that’s very functional right? So that is the reality of a human being human being is beyond that, you know, be a human being is always about sensory reality that has a lot more senses. Emotion being one of that our all the shoe human sense. surreal reality together with our perception, together with the utility and beyond is, is a true sensor design that is very hard to achieve in every project, actually, you know, and, and within that, actually, whether this is opening up our fantasy or dream world, you know, or if it is creating a real connection with back to reality, or how it should be, I think all these questions are up for grabs. I think another thing is, what will be its effect on our psychology that is, again, is not understood completely. And I think unless those early mistakes are made and understood, and things are taken into some direction, I want to bring one example here, though, that if you look at the same thing happened with the music videos, you know, if you look at the early 90s, music videos, you know, there are some so many effects all crashed into one, if you look from that time period, there could be one or two videos you can take where people have understood the media and try to use it in a meaningful manner. You know, so this has always happened with technology that people get excited, and then they want to do and that’s what happening with the meta was because everything is possible. Compared to graphic design only there was just the graphic 2d work. You know, now product design, they were just object architecture, they were just one building. Now here is everything. It’s like a complete environment, you can bet. So So here, we need to go through those those, let’s say early excitement, try out experiment. But we need to settle down the dust and try to navigate ourselves to see really what we need to and where we can engage and go from there and open really for those discoveries not to have preconceived ideas. Yeah.

Filiberto Amati
Thank you, Marco.

Marco Bevolo
Yes. From the metaverse to our global reality at the moment which were there are several challenges. Chapter four of your, of your book, culture of creation, as being contributed by Eric Chang and berries bears the title, design and pluralism. We discussed before Satyendra un die, in one of our encounters the challenges of social cohesion. Do you see in the future for design a political role in achieving cohesion through societies? Do you see a role that might go back to the modernist ideas of Bauhaus of the schools of design that add a social mission? Or do you see these happening? implicitly? How do you see the future of design with respect to its mission in society, for in general, and for you?

Satyendra Pakhalé
I think in a I always think every act in a creative act for definitely is a political act, you know, so political, not in electoral politics, what we know with the politician, but the moment anybody creates whatever you create, if you’re aware or not, it’s a political act, you know, so deeply designed, as his foundation is a political, you know, one cannot deny that you may not understand it, or you may not be serious about it, but it’s just a fact, you know, so, so in a true sense of politics, you know, to understand to manifest, I think, and that’s very much let’s say, a powerful tool, in that sense of, of engaging with the society and try to create whatever, whatever you want to manifest within that context of a project, you know, so, design has always been a political now, if you take the consumerism that we developed and practice and put it so much high, that we almost almost every industry worship as a as a better than a God, not that I believe in a god, but just to say that, yeah, as a metaphor, that, that that became the only possibility and people became kind of blinded for the other possibilities, what design could be, I think in a true sense, I would say design is the evolution of design, because design as a term and as a practice and as a profession, compared to let’s say other creative professions is relatively has a relatively shorter history, you know, so from that perspective, I do see a design could even go in our in our politics, where it is already there. Actually not could go, I have to correct myself if you look at the campaign of all the presidential campaigns, or the Prime Minister campaigns, if you look at the understanding of perception and how they had the graphical level it is already there. You go to the left Should any any common muncipal election here in the city, you see the posters and all that is already used, you know. So it’s not something in terms of shaping a society that is already used on a visual level, let’s say, Yeah, on a presentation level, on a on a on, let’s say, somehow controlling the perception level, you know, like the position of perception of a candidate, and so on and so forth. But really, at the level of policy, therefore shaping the society, therefore restructuring the society, I think at that level, we have the things are there, but they’re not manifested to the level how design could positively impact and create positive change for a wider masses actually, and I think that is, in my understanding, if the world goes in, in a normal succession, hopefully that will happen. And that is my optimism, that design will go in that direction, that it will help shape the society in a positive way, you know, so that would be the right thing I would say to happen, you know,

Marco Bevolo
yeah, well, in one of my lectures, a show students a Big Bang. And I explained to them that this is a revolutionary tool, because it opened up the possibility to write into a writing tool to basically anyone in the world by product dying, of course, there is the challenge of environmental sustainability because the Big Bang with plastic, but in Origins, it was a tool of democratization, we normally with Filiberto, we try to probe wild cards or try to understand if you want to see the future of design where you should look into fine arts or, or other domains. But in the case of these of this dialogue, if Filiberto agrees and bears with me, I would like to invite you to select a couple of examples of from your practice that you consider particularly representative of possible evolution of design in the future, it doesn’t matter if it’s a project of 20 years ago. But from your perspective, if I asked you, where do I see the future of design, in this case, in your practice? Where would you point out what would be two three outstanding examples that have been published? And printed in the culture of creation? Your book?

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, I mean, Marco, one, one thing comes to my mind is so much of saying this is it and this is going to be nobody can see that. That will be too difficult people, the I always say, whenever everybody speaks about future, we always speak future in retrospect, I mean, everybody talks about the future looking in the rearview mirror. So people when the first time iPhone came, iPod came, people started when it already happened, right? They talking, they singing about the songs of the innovation, when it already happened, actually, you know, when, uh, when we were in mid 90s 9596 97, cultivating the handle objects in vision. COVID is, you know, the project, vision on mu, we were considering all these handheld devices and objects, and there are already folding screens, and all those ideas are the navigation for children, to parents, to elderly people to read letters, when you can read because of the eyesight is not there, or you can’t hear all those things are there? You know, none of those. I mean, many of those ideas can become real, which we’re practicing in that kind of some sense. So it’s always I must say that with the it’s very hard to say this is it and this is going to be the future. Nobody knows that, you know, and then somebody saying that that person is probably not saying the correct thing. Because Because in historically, if you look at all the examples, whoever tried to predict future, they were terribly wrong, you know? So it’s very difficult to say I can say, I wish this could go and develop further, but I cannot say this is it, because I don’t know that.

Marco Bevolo
But that will set your vision that Filiberto and I would really like you to share your vision. From a methodological point of view, the future cannot be studied as history because it didn’t happen yet. However, from history we can project Yeah, exactly. In all

Filiberto Amati
fairness when Mark and I speak about future since he’s a forest expert, we speak about possible probable futures? Yeah. We never focus on one. Because we know that would be foolish.

Satyendra Pakhalé
Yeah, no, I think I mean, the question of, because, you know, of course, the I’m keen, and if you’re curious about the built environment in a very broad way, in every sense, actually, for an object level to architecture level, and what comes in between, such as mobility of assistance, and so forth, you know, so the book does publish all those kinds of books, in terms of projects related to mobility, as well as projects related to object to projects related to something, what could become a new possible possibility of manufacturing and possibilities, you know, I, I’m always very curious that the built environment, because it shapes our reality, that forces shapes our well being in fact, in a in a in a true positive way. So the design can have that impact on sanctuary, you know, on an object level to, to build environment architecture or city level, you know, and, and what is very interesting thing is actually, those thoughts and ideas are manifested in a book in a very precise manner, in a sense that the object itself has that sensory quality, and that has its own impact on our lives, actually, you know, and there are many objects which which we have engaged in there in the book actually, from very different types of material from ceramic to bronze, to aluminium to stainless steel, and so on, so forth. And, and, and that is the expression that has been used, but, and there’s a lot of exercise gone into making in terms of materiality. So as much as I can say, I’m a designer who, who grew up together with this all the 3d software’s as they were going, but I also was very critical about the 3d softwares and wanted to engage with the physical reality, and also try to understand what is gone behind us and before us and learn those those materials by really engaging with, you know, so the result of that practice, really, I would say, tangibly manifest into one important project, that is the radiator, the add on radiator, you know, which is not just a pretty object to look at, but it’s a very technological product, but it doesn’t manifest any technology at all. And then it just a screen where air passes through action, you know, and the idea there is really after, it’s been a long journey, it is a it was a four years of product development. And eventually, it really saves up to 40% of the energy because, you know, traditionally all the radiators, since the last pandemic, actually, I learned even more now, during this pandemic, that the radiators were designed to install just next to the, to the window. So the airport comes and the warm air comes inside. So we probably you saw that in Manhattan, they still have a problem that the buildings are heated too much. But that was the need of the pandemic that time, you know, now the idea of this radiator is that it is really a radiator that can be seamlessly integrated in architecture. Now that exercise to create a kind of a fixture that can go from Canada to Australia, from Japan to South America, and any country in between, you know, two, very good just fit, that was a huge work actually design and engineering work. But at the end, it successfully work. So where I’m coming to that all the exercises, practice of working on ceramic, metal manufacturing, all of that manifest into that project eventually becomes

a product which becomes icon eventually now, after all these years, if I could say, it’s still considered one of the innovative product in that industry, you know, and it’s so so it, not only does it create the, let’s say, aesthetically pleasing object, but it is also energy saving object it is also it defines the architecture space, it creates certain ambience and so forth. So, I hope, you know, it’s again, it’s not a product in itself, it’s a system product, because it goes in a part of the architecture. Heating is a big, big cost as well in terms of energy we consume and use. So all of those issues are back up the are behind that design solution finally, that became real and industrial and manufactured since last 15 years, it’s in the market. So I really hope and wish that we could create more products which are which are that long lasting, they are not about fashion at all. They are not like one season because when you put a radiator in a house, you don’t say I change in six months. It’s there as long as the house is dead, you know, or longer if you even you know, and that has been the thinking around about almost all kinds of works. So for me this idea of so called sustainability long lasting these are not new ideas. Since I’ve said this a long, long time ago, almost any culture, you go on the planet, these ideas were there. We trashed those ideas in last 6070 years since the industry, l consumerism came into picture action. But these practices were in the practice of leaving how people cook their food, how they ate, how they consume, how they made their stuff. It was it has been in every culture, you can go around actually around the planet, you know? Well, so to bring back that thinking, but in a you know, yeah,

Marco Bevolo
actually, Robert Gruden in his book on designing Robert ruling is, is actually coming from humanities, he defines design as the principal the way to organize energy to organize light, and to organize the systems that support the life. So it’s quite interesting that you chose that you picked a project signature project of your portfolio, which has to do with heat, which, of course, is a very contemporary topic at the moment in Europe. And it brings designer into an apparently, unknown, he moves infrastructure. One of those objects that we do not see during the day, but are fundamental to our quality of life. And our Well, being Filiberto, do you have any comment? Or any?

Filiberto Amati
No, I have a follow up question based on what you just said. And like, you know, let’s look at what’s next. For us, again, in terms of not future from the rear view, but based on you know, present looking forward. Okay. Part of the research I’ve done, we mark in the past, we, we talked about the beautification of categories and boundaries, because, you know, from an industrial point of view, technological development, it’s really making sure that industry, we were traditionally known Egyptians are converging. Okay, so now, you mentioned mobility, mobility, it’s an important platform for restaurateurs for the layers for healthcare and of course, for for cities who need to be more sustainable. So, we see that in many industries, the traditional categories definition are completely blurred. That now you have spirits company launching non distilled beverages, and beverage soft drink manufacturers were launching hard sell cells, which are basically soft drinks without coke. So easily, there is a lot of, of this convergence in that sense. And, yeah, a bit of a mess. So if there were a project or an industry or a sector, a product, where you say, look, I would really want to fix that, I would really want to focus my time, two years, three years, in solving that problem, or in redesigning the way we do. Mobility, the way we do buildings, the way we do air conditioning the way we do, I don’t know, what would they be? And why?

Satyendra Pakhalé
To talk to you about my current projects, it’s going to be difficult. I will try

Filiberto Amati
nothing, nothing of your wish for the future. Of course, yes,

Satyendra Pakhalé
absolutely. Yeah, no, the, the point you mentioned is very much so that that many, there are many challenges which need to be solved. And one of those is obviously there’s a lot of talk, and we are engaged with that as well. And let’s see where it goes. Because these are all unknownst, you know, two areas I want to mention. And then another area I want to mention as well. But first two areas, which are, let’s say could be converging and could be next to each other as well as healthcare and robotics, you know, and robotics in social robotics, and in talking about the robotics, which engages with the people, you know, so healthcare and it’s, you know, the both these areas very much. These are the new engagements we have we’ve been involved with, you know, but but the both these contexts, you know, there is a lot of talk about AI on one side, there’s a lot of talk about robotics, but there’s really still it is stuck in that fantasy world or 50s. What robotics should be, it’s not evolved from that. And it’s very hard to find any significant example where it’s not just the human eye puppet, or oboe, which is a social robot are the other extreme is just a box. You know, there’s nothing you can find in between these two extremes actually, you know, that is That is another problematic which is which is which has to be engaged in we are dealing with the healthcare directly relates with that, because it has to do with a lot to do with the engagement with the individual and you know, in a different ways, you know, so, and there are in the healthcare sector, actually, there are many things which are outrightly, extremely polluting, and they have been accepted, because, because the big pharma companies are behind it, under the name of so called taking care of human life, they have just created so much throwaway products, you know, just single use just for the sake of saying hygiene or whatever, they all need to be looked at, I mean, it creates a tremendous amount of amount of, let’s say, trash, which has not been thought through, and it’s a kind of a gray area, nobody criticizes, because it’s supposed to be for the hat, you know, and the the amount of money made by some companies on that, it’s just obscene actually, because it is for the health, you know, and it kind of get camouflage into public health schemes and, and policies when nobody really looks at the cost, you know, so these are the two areas, the other area that requires a lot of work, and I hope, we get possibilities to engage, we have some early engagements, and some early things are happening, but that requires a lot more work actually, to think critically and understand, you know, because they are just designed just to exploit, you know, to a to a to a level, you can’t imagine, actually, and when I seen some of those things out of my own curiosity, and some what goes in the hospital, and especially during the pandemic time, it it just shocked me, you know, because it’s never taught to adult lecture, you know, so that is one the other area, which is also very dear to me, and, and, and this engagement is the on a city level, like, you know, urban level, at the same time, the context of, let’s say, shaping a physically the context of a city, or a town or a city or, or a place. And within that context, the the, the, let’s say seamless integration of some way. One could say infrastructure and the main infrastructure being mobility, because I think in that sense of public public transport, I think it’s very, very important. I’m not talking about mobility in the sense of just everybody having little scooter and electric battery, and then two or two years later, those batteries will be trashed. I don’t know where, you know, that’s, that’s another I’m talking about on a public scale. I’m talking on the infrastructure scheme. And I think in that sense, there is quite some work to be done as well, you know, and all the developments, which are there right now, in terms of technology, and all the developments, which are there, what we got the benefit of, let’s say, communication, are yet to be implemented, actually, you know, in a public infrastructure. So that is the that’s a new area, that’s open area, a lot work to need to be done on there. And whoever does, I don’t mind, I would be really happy to be engaged with that area as well. We had some early conversations, but that’s a public policy thing. You know, that’s a bigger thing. But I think within the schemes and the developments you see within European community, I hope and at least I see at least at the level of conceptual study work, and if they see there is a hope that those ideas could become reality. Well,

Marco Bevolo
thank you very much. I would like to ask you a last question. Considering the richness and the depth of your book of cultural creation, I assume it will be taken on board by students, by academies by academics, what will be your message, your core message, even as logo if you like, or what would be your intent towards students will be designers or the future and particularly students? Who will Wu Tang from, from India from from Asia, who engage in a dialogue across countries across continents as you did what would be your call based on the history, the thinking and the reflections that you shared in the book?

Satyendra Pakhalé
Yeah, it’s Mark. I mean, there are many issues in the book actually. And I will try to give a broad cross section but eventually hopefully give a direction as well. But the book when we created a book was the idea has always been that there has always been intellectual curiosities, and how can we synthesize And bringing all those those topics to conversation within about book actually which was itself a challenge in a way because there are many issues craftsmanship to technology, two questions related to industry question related to you social modernity, which is a very important issue we all face on a planet not at one place than the other, talking about societies, our societies, our vertical societies are, how much more oppression and so forth, so forth, talking about the link of that at the artisanal world and link up artisanal world with the industry, how industry depends on artisanal work as well actually developments. And, and, of course, there is a there is engagement in terms of practice, and the whole engagement of what we, let’s say,

green Create as a practice, and how that practice manifest those ideas, you know, into a tangible reality, that is somehow manifest even in a in a project I want to bring is non electric kitchen appliances, you know, where the things are not backward looking, but of how we’re looking understanding from the past actually, you know, so, there are a lot of those ideas, now, these issues are quite intellect, you know, and quite interconnected, they cannot be separated in my understanding, and that was the purpose. The another intent we had while making a book is as well is can we create a book which which will trigger imagination of anybody who is curious, that the, the filmmaker or writer or designer or architect or landscape, or student, or student, of course, they all come into that actually, you know, and in that sense of students being anybody for that matter who is curious. So, that has been our objective. So there are a lot of process photos. So there are really almost three books in one book, because there is the the critical part, the the, the writings, that is one part, the whole process, and the methods and the the practice where all the meticulously photograph each steps and, and all the the let’s say, the, the vibrant practice what brings a day today, those photos are somehow try to bring that story to life, you know, not just by words, but through images as well. And also, last, but the most important is the body of work, which so these three facets are very strong, almost three books in one book, that’s why it became such a big book. At the same time, there has always been a curiosity, how one could connect those ideas. So the index is generally back of the book, which nobody really looks at, we have in the front of the book. And it serves as the as the possibility those who are curious to connect the dots, from people to places to organizations to cultural context, even to the ideas of cultural connection. The reason why I’m mentioning all this broad idea is genuinely because I believe and that is really the thing is that design is a cultural act. Design is a culture like though it has all the components of a society, from technology, to sociology, to psychology, to whatnot, to understanding perception. And at the same time, eventually, it is a cultural, it is not a technical architecture, you know, and if one understands and gets that message through the book, I’ll be happy. And I think anybody who’s interested and engaged with that to understand, be the policymaker or a student, be the politician or or industrialist be a professor or a fellow designer or architect, I think what is really important is that to have that curiosity, and to bring that plurality, because there is no one discourse and the book also manifests. Because the world is a fascinating place. And often design is looked at, in a very narrow perspective. Every the whole world is filled with creation and possibilities, you know, how one could create that, from that knowledge and understanding a contemporary expression in your own manner, itself is a challenge and an interesting, fascinating, let’s say journey. And that is, I think, has to be understood in a plural. So you bring in the point which Eric Eric chan brings it to his his essay, I think these are very, very crucial and important point and the same point further. jackboots again is another axiom, axiomatic design, one of the one of the essays in the book as well, he also bring that point in a different way, talking from a cultural plurality perspective, talking from the social modernity perspective, and ideas which we have cultivated over a period of time in terms of social modernity and how that manifests and has to be evolved in the direction of social cohesion. I think these are some of the core ideas of the book. And I think somehow we need to engage more to talk about it. Yeah.

Marco Bevolo
Thank you, very much, Filiberto.

Filiberto Amati
So then wrap Thank you very much. It was really inspiring, talking to you, and thank you for answering our questions. And I really hope this is the beginning of a dialogue in the future as well. So to have you back with us, you know, maybe before the next book or during the next book as well.

Marco Bevolo
I would like to show one last time, Satyendra pocket a culture of creation. 990 10 publishers in the Netherlands. Thank you, Satyendra. We are looking forward to stay in touch indeed, as we did in the past, and as we will do in the future. Thank you very much.

Satyendra Pakhalé
Thank you. Thank you, Marco. Thank you for your work. Thank you for inviting me and I look forward to continue our conversation. Thank you

 


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